r/TechSupport WAS Dark
Last Updated 2023-06-19
If you found your way to this page, then r/TechSupport WAS AT SOME POINT set as private. You probably have a lot of questions. We will try our best to answer them all here.
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Table of Contents
- What is going on?
- What does this have to do with third-party Reddit applications and why is everyone screaming about them dying because of Reddit?
- Why are people mentioning that it will harm those that require accessible websites?
- What about NSFW content?
- Why would the moderators of a subreddit for tech support care about all of this? How does this affect you?
- Why would you do this to us?
- How can we, the users, help?
- YOU are important to r/TechSupport and we couldn’t do this without YOU
- Participating Subreddits
- Protest Information
- Blackout and Reddit API in the Media
- Resources and Further Reading
What is going on?
On April 8, 2023 Reddit announced they would begin charging for usage of their API effective June 19, 2023. In the announcement, Reddit expressed their concern with the “expansive access to data” acquired through their API and how they “have an obligation to [their] communities to be responsible stewards of this content.”
As the moderators of a technical support subreddit, we could not agree more. Currently, data from Reddit is utilized freely to train Large Language Models (LLM), which are the base for AI technologies such as ChatGPT. As you may imagine, this can become problematic very quickly for a multitude of reasons. However, there are also many benefits to LLMs. Even Reddit’s engineers have pointed out machine learning is very beneficial to Reddit.
So then what’s the big deal? We agree with Reddit for the most part, right? Well, here’s where things get tricky: Reddit’s changes to their API, with regard to cost and usage, introduced several issues that would drastically change how most users use Reddit. They have stated that their goal is to make these updates with as little disruption as possible. However, if the revelations over the past few days have been any indication, this will not be the case.
Over the years Reddit has picked up the particularly annoying habit of failing to follow through with their promises. From promises of building new tools for moderators to promising to give more visibility when users follow you, Reddit has either, at best, barely followed through with their promise or, at worst, completely missed the mark on what they promised.
What does this have to do with third-party Reddit applications and why is everyone screaming about them dying because of Reddit?
I’m sure you all have heard of the various third-party mobile applications. To name a few…
- Apollo
- Narwhal
- Joey
- Reddit is Fun
- BaconReader
- Sync
- Relay
- RedReader
- Boost
- Infinity
- Pager
- ReddPlanet
- Slide
Maybe you use one of them daily. Perhaps it is the only way you browse Reddit. Many of them offer insane customization to tailor your Reddit experience to exactly what you want.
These third-party applications (3PAs) rely heavily on Reddit’s API. Many of the developers work alone on their applications as a labor of love to the Reddit community. Most only charge a small fee for pro versions of their application.
To put it simply, Reddit gave developers of these applications very little time to prepare. Most developers learned around the end of May what the cost would be. Considering the changes to cost would go into effect on July 1st, giving approximately 30 days to prepare by optimizing the applications to possibly minimize costs and setting up models for possible subscriptions to help with costs is ridiculous.
And what was Reddit’s response?
In his recent disaster of an AMA when asked why the timeline of charging for the API was so strict, u/spez responded,
They do not care if they made it difficult for 3PAs. They have no desire to remedy the situation to allow 3PAs to properly prepare nor to lower costs. Unfortunately, this has put several developers in a rough spot. Many have already announced they will be shutting down their applications come June 30th.
We can go on and on about this, but we are not the developers and cannot give the proper perspective on the issue. So, we have compiled a list of developers describing the issue from their perspectives. We urge you to take the time to read through their posts, once their subreddits are up if they are participating in the blackout.
If anything, please read through the post made by Apollo’s developer, Christian, as he gives a very well thought out and detailed explanation on why he has been forced to shut down Apollo.
Why are people mentioning that it will harm those that require accessible websites?
There is no way to put this mildly, so we’ll just come out with it. Reddit’s lack of accessibility on their almost 18 year old website is disgraceful. The fact that they have not implemented anything for accessibility in their official mobile app is inexcusable. Their lack of care towards the concerns raised by the r/blind moderators and community is disgusting.
u/spez stated in his recent AMA,
Reddit is very aware of how awful their site is for those requiring accessibility. It took outrage from the Reddit community for them to admit they were wrong. And now, as we see from his statement, they are offloading the responsibility to 3PAs, while giving very little guidance on how a 3PA will qualify for free usage of the API.
We will have to keep our fingers crossed that Reddit will follow through with creating a more accessible site as the free API for accessible 3PAs might only be temporary.
We encourage you to please read through the post by r/blind moderators on the issues they face with the loss of 3PAs with accessibility features, as well as this recent update from the r/blind moderators where, despite reddit’s promise to work with them for accessibility features, Reddit instead made it impossible for moderation teams needing accessibility options to moderate their own subreddits.
What about NSFW content?
NSFW content is available everywhere on the internet. Reddit has opted to remove NSFW content from being available through their API. We realize it’s not easy to see why this could create issues, however this has caused problems in the past. We will be quoting the points made in the original post from r/ModCoord as we feel they said it best:
- NSFW (18+) content and related subreddits are facing new restrictions, making certain content inaccessible via the API, rendering moderation via automated processes null and void.
- The changes are likely to lead to an increase in spam, necessitating excessive human moderation or resulting in overrun communities, given the significance of mature content as a traffic driver on the platform.
- Besides NSFW communities, these changes also affect diverse spaces like art forums, minor chat rooms, and nudist lifestyle communities, which require oversight of user activities in mature content domains.
- While the stated reasons for these restrictions include legal compliance and enhancing content creator control, we argue that third-party apps could implement similar measures for content display.
Why would the moderators of a subreddit for tech support care about all of this? How does this affect you?
As moderators we strive to make our subreddit a welcoming, safe, and helpful place for our users. Over the years we have had to supplement our community with external sources maintained by our moderator team and a group of other volunteers. Simply put, Reddit does not offer the resources necessary for us to fully support our community.
Since 2015 Reddit admins have been promising to build and improve tools for moderators. Though Reddit has made some improvements over the years, it is far from the features offered by popular moderation tools such as toolbox.
Moderators heavily rely on 3PAs to help with everyday moderation. Frankly, it is close to impossible to moderate large subreddits without them. Losing 3PAs for moderation would make it difficult to
- Have a set list of commands to allow any users helping others to link to approved guides
- Identify extremely active, helpful users in the subreddit
- Moderate anything via mobile devices
- Quickly identify posts requiring a question to be answered
- Quickly identify spam
This is a sentiment shared by most, if not all, moderators with subreddits participating in the blackout. Reddit’s changes to their API affects everyone. Users and moderators. Developers and their 3PAs.
On June 6th we announced we would, along with over 3000 subreddits, go dark starting June 12th in order to protest against the changes to the API. After u/spez’s AMA on June 9, 2023, we decided to private the subreddit until Reddit makes a concerted effort to reevaluate and reverse their decisions on the API changes.
Why would you do this to us?
We know this decision affects our users heavily. We understand this may anger some of you. We did not make this decision easily. As we said in our original post on the blackout, we truly believe this is in the best interest of the community.
We want to show Reddit there is power in numbers. Our moderators matter. Our users matter. Our communities matter. We have a voice. Reddit cannot continue to grow without all of us.
We want our users to know they won’t be left hanging, however. Though our subreddit will be closed, we will have our live chat open in our Discord Server, 24/7, as it always has been. Our wiki will also be available to everyone. We ask our users to please spread the word to others requiring tech support about these resources.
How can we, the users, help?
Starting June 12th, we ask if everyone can limit or completely stop their use of Reddit until the protest is over. This will help us with our protest. We want to limit traffic to the site as much as possible.
YOU are important to r/TechSupport and we couldn’t do this without YOU
We want to thank you all for supporting our subreddit every day. From the users that volunteer their time to help someone with an issue to the users asking questions for others to find the answer to in the future, we appreciate you all immensely.
– r/TechSupport Moderators
well im fresh out of ideas pic.twitter.com/plKChB8J8D
— Linus Tech Tips (@LinusTech) June 13, 2023
Participating Subreddits
Plain Text List Pretty List Top Subs
Live Counter of Subreddits Going Dark, Twitch reddark_247
Protest Information
Announcements
June 1, 2023
June 2, 2023
June 6, 2023
June 7, 2023
June 9, 2023
r/ModCoord
June 11, 2023
June 13, 2023
June 15, 2023
June 16, 2023
June 17, 2023
June 18, 2023
June 19, 2023
Blackout and Reddit API in the Media
April 18, 2023
June 1, 2023
Article
English
Article
English
June 3, 2023
June 5, 2023
Article
English
Article
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Article
German
Heise Online - Protest gegen API-Preise: Große Subreddits werden tagelang stillgelegt
Article
English
Article
English
Ars Technica, By Ron Amadeo - Reddit’s plan to kill third-party apps sparks widespread protests
June 6, 2023
Article
Dutch
Article
English
Paywall
Bloomberg, By Priya Anand - Reddit on New Pricing Plan: Company ‘Needs to Be Fairly Paid’
Article
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June 7, 2023
Article
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Engadget, By Karissa Bell - Reddit says some accessibility apps won’t have to pay for its API
Article
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June 8, 2023
June 9, 2023
Article
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Article
German
Article
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June 10, 2023
Article
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June 11, 2023
Video
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NBC Bay Area - Reddit communities to go dark Monday to protest third-party app changes
Article
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Yahoo News, By Anna Bernardo - Dota 2, VALORANT, other gaming subreddits to join Reddit Blackout
Article
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Tech Times, By John Lopez - Gaming Subreddits Join Reddit Blackout Against Drastic API Pricing Hike
Article
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Mac Rumors, By Joe Rossignol - Apple Subreddit Goes Dark in Protest of Reddit’s API Pricing Changes
Article
English
June 12, 2023
Video
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Article
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Sky News, By Tom Acres - Reddit blackout: Thousands of communities are doing dark today - here’s why
Article
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Aljazeera, By Mohammed Haddad - Why are thousands of Reddit pages going dark for 48 hours?
Article
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Paywall
Bloomberg, By Alex Millson - Reddit Blackout Begins as Forums Protest Charges for Developers
Article
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Paywall
Los Angeles Times, By Helen Li - Thousands of Reddit communities go dark to protest new data fees
Article
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NBC News, By David Ingram - Reddit communities go private to protest pricing plan for apps
Article
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Ars Technica, By Scharon Harding - API pricing protests caused Reddit to crash for 3 hours
Article
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Paywall
The New York Times, By Michael Levenson - Reddit Communities Go Dark to Protest New App Policy
Article
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Android Police, By Manuel Vonau - Reddit blackout explained: Why subreddits have gone dark
Article
Portuguese
June 13, 2023
Video
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Article
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NPR, By Bobby Allyn - Online messaging boards are protesting Reddit’s controversial new fees
Article
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Lifehacker, By Pranay Parab - Three Things You Should Do Before Deleting Your Reddit Account
Article
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June 14, 2023
Video
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Article
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Paywall
Forbes, By Peter Suciu - Reddit Blackout Casts Spotlight On Its Failure To Turn A Profit
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TechRadar, By Muskaan Saxena - The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes
Article
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Vice, By Jason Koebler - The Reddit Protest Is a Battle for the Soul of the Human Internet
Article
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The Guardian, By Alex Hern - Reddit moderators vow to continue blackout in API access fees row
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Article
Japanese
Gigazine - RedditのAPI有料化に伴う抗議活動は「収益に悪影響を与えていない」とRedditのCEOが表明、従業員に「身を守るためにReddit関係者であることは隠して」とも通達
Article
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Adweek, By Catherine Perloff - Ripples Through Reddit as Advertisers Weather Moderators Strike
June 15, 2023
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Tweet
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Article
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Ars Technica, By Scharon Harding - As the Reddit war rages on, community trust is the casualty
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Paywall
June 16, 2023
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Youtube, The Damage Report - Reddit Users Turn on CEO Steve Huffman After API Announcement
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Youtube, Louis Rossmann - Reddit forcibly breaks strike; this is an UNINVESTABLE company!
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Youtube, Eli the Computer Guy - REDDIT FIRING MODS for PROTESTING - tyrant CEO DEMANDS democracy
Article
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Article
German
Heise, By Martin Holland - Reddit: Geschäftsführer geht in die Offensive, Drohung an Moderatoren
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PCMag, By Michael Kan - Reddit CEO Threatens to Boot Moderators Who Back Blackout Protest
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June 17, 2023
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Youtube, Louis Rossmann - Reddit CEO learns going to war with the internet is a LOSING battle
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June 18, 2023
Video
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Article
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June 19, 2023
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The Verge, By Alex Castro - Reddit hackers demand $4.5 million ransom and API pricing changes
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Resources and Further Reading
From Reddit
- An Update Regarding Reddit’s API
- Addressing the community about changes to our API
- Data API Terms
- Developer Terms
- Mod Code of Conduct Rule 4 & 2 and Subs Taken Private Indefinitely